No answers to how humans cause climate change

Opposing views of the theory of a fixed flat Earth with a firmament against a planet in orbit around the Sun have persisted since the Bible. Can you present a rational argument for both sides and then based on those conclusions decide which one is true?
If I don’t understand something I just tend to not GAF and move on. My jury is still out on this but maybe a flit in an Alien ion ship might sort out it all out once and for all. Must remember to take a camera

Flat Earth with Firmament: Arguments in Favour
Proponents of the flat Earth model, often drawing from biblical interpretations (e.g., Genesis 1:6-8 describing a “firmament” or dome separating waters above and below, and references to Earth’s “four corners” in Isaiah 11:12 or a “circle” in Job 26:10), argue for a stationary, disc-shaped Earth enclosed by a solid dome. Key rational points include:

Observational Evidence from Horizon and Perspective: On a flat plane, the horizon appears flat and rises to eye level regardless of altitude (e.g., high-altitude balloon footage shows no curvature). Proponents claim globe models require optical illusions or atmospheric refraction to explain this, citing experiments like those by Samuel Rowbotham in the 19th century, where Bedford Level tests allegedly showed no curvature over miles of water.
Water Behavior and Gravity: Water naturally seeks a level surface and doesn’t curve, so oceans couldn’t adhere to a spinning globe without flying off. Instead, they argue for a flat, enclosed system where the firmament holds back cosmic waters, preventing “spilling.” Gravity is dismissed as pseudoscience; density and buoyancy explain why objects fall, with Earth accelerating upward at 9.8 m/s² (Universal Acceleration theory) mimicking gravity.
Sun and Moon as Local Lights: The Sun and Moon are small, nearby objects (about 3,000 miles up) circling above the flat disc, explaining day/night cycles, seasons via conical motion, and eclipses as self-luminosity interactions or shadows from unseen bodies. Antarctic Treaty restrictions supposedly hide the ice wall edge encircling the disc.
Historical and Scriptural Authority: Ancient cultures (e.g., Babylonian and Egyptian cosmologies) depicted flat Earth under a dome, aligning with biblical literalism. Modern space agencies like NASA are accused of deception via CGI and controlled narratives to promote heliocentrism for control or profit.

These views persist in communities like the Flat Earth Society, emphasizing personal experimentation over “elitist” science.
Heliocentric Model: Planet Orbiting the Sun
The prevailing scientific model posits Earth as an oblate spheroid orbiting the Sun in an elliptical path, rotating on its axis, supported by centuries of empirical data. Rational arguments include:

Direct Visual and Photographic Evidence: Satellite imagery (e.g., from Apollo missions, ISS, and weather satellites) shows Earth’s curvature and round shape. High-altitude photos and live feeds reveal a horizon dropping away, consistent with sphericity. Foucault’s pendulum and gyroscopes demonstrate rotation, with the Coriolis effect influencing weather patterns and artillery calculations.
Celestial Mechanics and Orbits: Stellar parallax (measured shifts in star positions from Earth’s orbit) confirms annual revolution around the Sun, first quantified by Bessel in 1838. Planetary retrograde motion is explained by heliocentric orbits, not requiring convoluted epicycles as in geocentric models. GPS, reliant on orbital satellites, functions precisely, triangulating positions assuming a globe.
Gravitational Physics: Newton’s law of universal gravitation and Einstein’s general relativity predict and measure Earth’s orbit (e.g., via Kepler’s laws). Gravity pulls matter into spheres for large bodies, explaining why planets aren’t flat. Lunar eclipses cast Earth’s round shadow on the Moon, observed consistently since antiquity (e.g., Aristotle, 4th century BCE).
Exploratory and Navigational Proof: Circumnavigation (e.g., Magellan’s voyage) works east-west on a globe but not on a flat disc without distortion. Time zones, sunrises varying by longitude, and Southern Hemisphere star rotations (circling south celestial pole) contradict flat models. Eratosthenes’ 3rd-century BCE experiment measured Earth’s circumference accurately using shadow angles at different latitudes.

This model underpins technologies like space travel, predicting phenomena like solar eclipses with precision.
Conclusion: Which is True?
The heliocentric model is true, overwhelmingly supported by reproducible evidence, mathematical consistency, and technological applications. Flat Earth claims rely on misinterpretations of observations (e.g., ignoring refraction in horizon tests) and conspiracy without falsifiable predictions, failing Occam’s razor by requiring vast global deception against verifiable data like orbital mechanics and satellite tech. Biblical “firmament” is poetic or metaphorical in modern scholarship, not literal cosmology, as ancient texts reflected limited knowledge. Science progresses via testing; flat Earth doesn’t withstand scrutiny from basic experiments anyone can perform, like watching ships disappear hull-first over the horizon due to curvature.

The elusive truth said – “… You guys are hilarious…”

You know we all still respect you, but sometimes you irritate me, really you do.

And the elusive truth said – “… That geometry cannot explain why the stars, like the Southern Cross, can always be seen in our night skies…”

Yes it can, and it does. Maybe it’s not true, maybe there really IS some other plausible model to account for all the available empirical evidence, but the Southern Cross is NOT that “evidence”.

According to the GLOBE EARTH hypothesis, anyone at or below 35 degrees South has a sufficiently angled perch to see the Southern Cross in the night sky all year round, because it’s DOWN THERE and you’re standing on a ROTATING SPHERE FFS.

You speak about “geometry”, well THERE’S a bit of simple geometry to chew on. Maybe go down to your basement and construct some paper mache models to TEST IT OUT for yourself, even use a BALLOON or two or maybe even a SOCCER BALL if you’re pressed for time, although most people can just model the situation IN THEIR MINDS or go outside and SEE IT for themselves.

Matter of fact, even people in the Northern Hemisphere up to somewhere around 25 degrees north can see the Southern Cross for SOME part of the year, because let’s review the hypothesis, they have an ANGLED view of the celestial hemispheres because they’re standing on a ROTATING SPHERE FFS. And on that rotating sphere with it’s axis of rotation DEFINING “up” and “down” vis-a-vis NORTH and SOUTH, even the people up North can still look DOWN SOUTH at the stars from their rotating perch on the F*CKING SPHERE.

And just BTW, those exact same considerations categorically REFUTE the “Flat Earth on a big static plate” hypothesis because how come you can’t see the North Star as soon as you wander South of the Equator, hmmm?

And DO NOT start BSing on about how the North Star is just too far away for anyone south of the Equator to “see” it, because in that case half the night sky would just be “too far away” for ANYONE to see it no matter WHERE thew are on that big pie plate called the “Flat Earth” and half the night sky would be EMPTY of anything but a black starless VOID.

Never mind the GEOMETRY you like to cite, if the North Star is right up there in the middle of the “Dome”, then how come anyone at the Equator can SEE the North Star right down flat on the HORIZON and not somewhere up overhead hanging off of some fantastical sky-borne concavity?

And don’t even get me started on the GEOMETRIC IMPOSSIBILITY of a POINT SOURCE of light illuminating 16 hour and LONGER days toward the outer half of the pie plate while the center is engulfed in 24 hours of DARKNESS.

Hey, we all GET that you have a big pole up your butt over the Heliocentric model of Life the Universe and Everything, but if you’re going to argue against it then at least try to dig up something that actually REFUTES It rahter than SUPPORTS it. And give the Southern Cross a rest, because it just makes you look STUPID (yeah, that’s right, folks, I went there).

And just BTW, if you REALLY want to divine the underlying Truth that’s out there (because Mulder and Scully said it is), then maybe find a better explanation than the wholly untenable “Flat Earth” hypothesis, which if it’s advanced as a theory is IMMEDIATELY and EMPHATICALLY debunkable.

You guys are hilarious. You get it we are lied to a lot but the biggest lies, WHERE YOU ARE AND WHO YOU ARE, you just can’t get your head around…I HAVE!

You cannot un-see it. I would have to deny the truth I have seen with my own eyes.

You are TOLD the earth moves in FOUR directions. Galaxy moves at millions of mph away from everything else, Sun is moving on a path at millions of mph, the Masons threw in 66,612 mph, the Earth spins at 1040 miles and hour…

There is Geometry in the heliocentric model, SIMPLE GEOMETRY, you know it is the solar system that they all taught us at THE INDOCTRINATION CENTRES (some call schools, that operate very similar to prisons) about. That geometry cannot explain why the stars, like the Southern Cross, can always be seen in our night skies.

YOU TRY TO EXPLAIN IT TO ME THEN! I TRIED TO EXPLAIN THEM BOTH FOR YEARS!

Only the stars are true. I can see them every night (as long as the sky is clear).The heliocentric model/Big Bang universe is NOT TRUE!

Evidence? Lets stick to the easy stuff you can do yourself.

Why does thunder echo off of the sky? EXPLAIN THAT. To bounce sound as an echo REQUIRES a solid surface. It isn’t air, clouds, thinner air or ‘outer space’ now is it? So what is it? Get in a rocket and you will smash right into it. That amatuer group in the USA got a rude awakening when their rocket got stuck in the… firmament. They know what I know now.

THINK! CRITICALLY THINK! Try to explain why you can see the same stars while the EARTH TRAVELS IN FOUR DIRECTIONS? We aren’t dragging all the bloody stars around with us on our so called ‘journey’. That is the best sense I can make of it.

AI- Doesn’t bother actually explaining it. It can’t.

Q. How does seeing the same stars in the sky every night fit with the geometry of the heliocentric model?

In the heliocentric model, Earth orbits the Sun, and the stars are much farther away than the Sun. From Earth’s perspective, the stars appear to move across the sky due to Earth’s rotation, but their relative positions remain nearly fixed over the course of a year.

This explains why we see the same stars each night — their vast distance means Earth’s orbit has a negligible effect on their apparent position in the sky. The stars appear to move in a celestial sphere that rotates around Earth, creating the illusion of motion while maintaining their overall pattern.

^ This crap flat out ignores the heliocentric model earth spins one revolution every 24 hours. “THEY ARE JUST SO FAR AWAY’!!! I counter that with the Square Inverse Law (Now its getting complicated right?). They tell us the stars are so far away, you bloody well couldn’t even see them, the light is so scattered over such distances, if such distances were even real.

Sorry but you doubters are a bunch of bleating sheep. They are laughing at you.

I am trying to ‘rip the veil off’. The devil has deceived the whole world. NASA (deceit in Hebrew) has been a mighty weapon, ran by Masons, just a coincidence and all it does is fakes EVERYTHING it does.

Look for yourself. Not every day you see high clouds but summer is coming. Get out your mobile phone and point it at the sun, cirrus clouds they are called. It is just 32 metres across and now I get it why they grow cannabis in the Himalaya’s, it is so much CLOSER to what I now call ‘the great HPS light in the sky’. It is plasma. It will just take once, it will then open you up to it all! Then everyone will call you nutjob and crazy like me, I don’t give a fuck what you bleating ignorant sheep call me.

Not even nuclear weapons are real! They can not produce the gas like TNT, to behave anything like TNT, it does produce heat hence the power stations.

Truly we live in Lucifer’s Kingdom of Lies. A world ran by the liars who call themselves Jews and their secret societies…Luciferians. Look at how both describe the REAL world, it is just as I am and that is hilarious…You are behaving like you are members of a cult, you want me to accept the accepted dogma! I know it isn’t true.

There are two doctrines in this world, one for the Goyim and one for the Initiates. I thought they meant just religion, no, it is also about the world we live in, what we believe/know to be truth (lie is central to the world belief, better to know).

Just wait until you get your head around it, you will see that science is a complete joke on the sheep. Solar Physics is a fraud.

Explain how the stars and motion of the earths four directions of movement fit together. I have an IQ of 130 and I can’t, therefore I must say that you cannot either. AI did not. I am willing to hear it, if it makes sense I will make sense of it. I have already proved to myself many times we have a local sun. So you have no hope.

UIB – It is apparent that you are a flat Earther.

Pat from Vic:
“And the elusive truth said – “… All this MOVEMENT supposedly happens while the Southern Cross is in the sky every night…””

I wasn’t going to reply to The elusive truth’s comment anyway, but thanks for trying to clarify the SIMPLE truth to him/her. Well put, although not very tactful.

You’re all wrong, the Earth is a cube. How else would you explain the Sixth Dimension?

Signed…
A. Nutter
President of the Cubist Society.

1). I have been thinking about climate change, and I believe the scientists would have to be right. That is why next time it rains, I know it will be raining gold!!!! The scientists have got to be the biggest BS and liars on this planet, and they are paid by the Labor government.
What is going on is the Earth is on two different axes.
2). To point this out and explain, I am going to get a ball about ¼ meter in diameter and mark the top North and the bottom South, and then put a shaft through North and South so it can rotate, and I will call this rotation day and night rotation. Now we have cooling and warming. So to point that out, I will put a shaft through the equator so it is 90 degrees to the day and night axis and halfway between the North and South poles, and now the earth can rotate on that axis, and I will call this axis the cooling and warming axis. Now the earth at this time is about 23 degrees on the cooling and warming axis; if it were greater than 90 degrees, then we would have warming. It is 23 degrees so we have cooling.
3). About 5000 years ago there was a big flood; see the Bible, Genesis 7:4, “rain for forty days and forty nights,” and the big flood also. The American Indians were dreaming of a big flood, and they had to make something that would float and tie it so it would not float away. And the Aborigines knew about a big flood, and it took a lot of land off Australia. We know that Tasmania and mainland Australia you could walk between them, and you may have been able to walk to New Zealand; that was before the big flood. The heavenly bodies will keep doing what they have been doing; that is, moving and they will not stop.
_________________________________________________________________________
4). Earth was at 0 degrees about 5000 years ago; now Earth is at 23 degrees. Therefore, 5000/23 = 217. That means it takes about 217 years to move 1 degree. 90-23 = 67; 67 x 217 = 14,539 years before cooling stops and warming starts. A new big flood would be 90 + 67 = 157 x 217 = 34,069 years for a new big flood. This is based on the last big flood being 5000 years ago. ____________________________________________________________________________
5). We have cooling, and that will go on for 14,539 years. Do not forget that the Earth is 70% water, land is 30%, and polar ice is only 1.7%, so if you went to the poles with a super heater and melted all the ice, remember it is only 1.7%, and do not forget that when the ice melts it shrinks, so it would make very little difference; the Greens would not notice the difference. This is proof that the Greens are working for the UN and do not care about the planet, just themselves. How dumb are the Greens?

The elusive truth said – “… The galaxy moves at whatever millions of mph away from everything else… The sun MOVES on a path through the galaxy…at a few million mph..The earth orbits the sun at 66,612 mph…
The earth spins at the equator at 1040 mph…”

So let’s get this straight, you’re positioning yourself as the Galactic Traffic Cop, right?

And the elusive truth said – “… All this MOVEMENT supposedly happens while the Southern Cross is in the sky every night…”

Well how about you enlighten us all, where would you LIKE the Southern Cross to go? Surely it can be arranged, even the Southern Cross ought to be amenable to the preferences of a wayward and irretrievably dogmatic idealogue such as yourself.

Just BTW, maybe the Japanese folk should all sign a petition to stop Mt Fuji from being so damned LETHARGIC, it has the stupid audacity to just sit there in plain view all day, every day AND NIGHT, no matter WHERE you nibble your noodles.

And as for that Mt Kilimanjaro, surely the Mammoth from the Mystic Mount would appreciate some sight-seeing or a short vacation every once in a while? Ain’t gonna happen as long as that recalcitrant crag insists on just sitting there.

And the elusive truth also said – “… We aren’t going anywhere and the stars PROVE IT…”

No they don’t. Stop putting words in their mouth. What have you got against stars anyway?

And then the elusive truth said – “… Just the orbit around the sun should see us looking at different stars right throughout the year…”

Why? Where exactly do you expect the stars to all go? Maybe they’ve got a big curtain that they should whip out and hide behind every time you stick your neck out the window.

Oh, the Sun, you say? Well true, the Sun kind of gets in the way of star-gazing for about half of most days, but of course that doesn’t alter the fact that you can see the ENTIRETY of the whole damn celestial hemisphere for that OTHER half of every day which happens to be NIGHT. And if you’re lucky enough to live anywhere near the Equator, then you can see the WHOLE celestial sphere, North AND South, every single night all throughout the year. Surprise!

If you’ve got some congenital impediment or other cognitive challenge that forces you only to look STRAIGHT UP like a flagpole and nowhere else, then maybe you should get your neck seen to and stop bitching about the recalcitrant stars.

And I’ll be buggered if the elusive truth didn’t say – “… Yet there it is, the Southern Cross, every night…”

How about leaving the poor old Southern Cross out of your psychosis, after all, it’s got feelings too. It’s been sitting there for quite a while now and probably feels rather comfortable reposing all the way DOWN THERE in plain sight for our edification and enlightenment. Still not far enough away DOWN THERE for your liking? Why should it have to scarper and evacuate from the sky just because some nut-job has a penchant to persecute it?

P.S. Has anyone mentioned that you’re an idiot? Just asking for a friend.

RE Chinas growth.Caltrop
October 14, 2025 at 8:45 am not sure if you support this Despite the 100s of Coal fired plants Also being built…AND there may still be a PRC economic crush on the horizon… as the Gov has poured in multi millions into the construction industry and many built new hi rise standing empty…. its all about balance… and this net zero craze is just that another big fear campaign… Co2 is needed to make oxygen.. I don’t know how we can survive without oxygen or grow plants incl food without co2….

You don’t have to be brain-washed university graduate to know all these B/S stories are just that. My schooling was in the 50’s and 60’s with no university and I was able to fathom that these lies were just that.

Thanks to you fellows for explaining in such a way that even the stupid should be able to understand the great hoaxes of the 20 and 21st centuries. No more truth in these stories than, Muslins flew into the twin towers to bring them down or that Martin Bryant was the killer at Port Arthur.

The elusive truth:
“…and the heliocentric model (busted as another lie by just seeing the same stars in the sky every night)” 🤦‍♂️
What is it with you ‘flat earthers’?
In my youth there was no such belief (and if their was it was followed only by a conspicuous, eccentric few), which has now practically devolved into a ‘religion’ in its own right and any suggestion of the earth being flat was generally and appropriately ridiculed. Which BTW, had nothing to do with NASA and their Stanley Kubrick produced and directed Hollywood science fiction movie series about the purported ‘Apollo’ moon missions, which most people fell for initially, myself included. Kubrick’s work was very convincing. People just accepted the FACT the earth is a sphere or globe, regardless of what NASA or anyone else said. I was an 11 year old elementary schoolboy on July 21st 1969 when NASA, the US government and all other governments, the entire global MSM used Kubrick’s and Hollywood’s Sci fi LIE to try and convince us all to believe that the so called ‘astronaut’, Neil Armstrong was supposedly the first human to set foot on the moon.
Anyway back to your comment:
“…and the heliocentric model (busted as another lie by just seeing the same stars in the sky every night)”
If you’d only left out that medieval era superstitious, unscientific and yes, also UNPROVEN utter nonsense: your otherwise excellent comment would have been 100% correct.

IT’S BEEN A LIE FROM THE START,AL GORE IS THE PERPETRATOR OF GLOBAL WARMING AND THE GLOBALISTS HAVE FOLLOWED HIS NARRATIVE, HOUVERING UP MONEY TO SUPPORT THIER EVIL INSIDIOUS ATTACK ON HUMANITY.

It’s even less than the fellow on the video said: Humans only produce 3% of the total CO2, not 11%. Apparently, nature manages to sequester everything it produces but CO² alarmists would have us believe that it cannot cope with an additional 3%. But the fact that the planet is greening, proves otherwise.