THIS CARNAGE OCCURS EVERY FIRE SEASON AND STILL THEY WILL NOT LEARN
T
he stupidity of the Victoria Country Fire Authority and the even more unintelligent Green Labor Government has seen 116 homes destroyed by fire because the Bolsheviks of the state Labor party forbid any hazard reduction burning in cooler months, removal of eucalypts trees near houses or any sensible fire prevention methods.
The government doesn’t use graders or bulldozers in their ‘pristine’ reserves in case a blade of grass or some ants are disturbed. The knuckle draggers of the state ALP should be prosecuted for this wanton carnage that will increase every insurance premium in the nation. Never mind the terrible consequences for those hapless home owners who have lost all of their possessions by not preparing their own fire breaks or providing sufficient water resources to fight bush fires.
Wakey wakey rural Victorians!
George Drysdale. You are so, so wrong on many counts.
I have just found your very personal attack on me, in this and another post outlining your Vietnam background and the generosity you and your family showed after the 2009 fires. That’s very admirable and you and your family should understandably be proud.
However, as a pompous, self indulgent plebeian messiah cretin, I won’t stoop that low in returning insults except to say bitterness is not a good trait. I had a good laugh though. ps. I think plebeian relates to you more than me.
1- I am not a member of the CFA empire, but a volunteer of 48 years (and a member of the Volunteer Fire Fighters organisation, and seen many a bushfire up close (sometimes too close), and still actively involved albeit in a minor non-decision role in an ICC. I am not a supporter of many of the CFA ‘gospel’ and challenge it often, except where crew safety is an issue and then I will support it strongly, as long as it is positive. As you’d remember, in the earlier days we’d just have our own jeans, t-shirts and boots and no helmets (or plastic ones) that had no protection what-so-ever.
I have never earned a cent from the CFA.
2- I happen to think that the fires were quite well managed, from ALL groups, as far as safety to crews and communities go. I’d like to know just how you’d handle these fires and if you have any suggestions about how to manage them better I’m sure people would just love to hear them.
3- Everything I’ve said is from my experience and common sense and I am not a fire behaviour analyst, but work beside them (as volunteer). It’s a credit that that no one was killed and/or seriously injured.
4- Rod Incoll – very impressive background but you and he fail to mention that all he said he’d do with his magic teams were, in fact, actually doing all that in inaccessible country where dozers could not even get close into the fire due to terrain and forest density (that had had a cool burn about 4 years ago). If he went in with his crews on Xmas day, we would probably be hearing of 20-50+ lives lost, instead we hear of 0 lives lost. Houses lost, yes, but replaceable (with due consideration to the owners losing them).
Interesting though to read this letter tabled to Parliament by him Rod Incoll where he was involved in wildfires when only 1.3 million hectares was burnt in only one fire, with numerous others occurring, however none of these had “Extreme Weather Events” pushing them along, and minimal communities under threat. It took him and his teams little longer than he lets on with his simple team approach. I agree with him though that more needs to be done, and that all political parties have contributed one way or another.
5- My comment about the VLAT seems to have riled you yet with out that, Scotsburn would have been a VERY different matter. It might have cost $250,000 +/- for that VLAT but that would have been cheap compared to the alternative had it got away.
6- Significant burn-offs were performed as late as last October around Wye River, Lorne, Apollo Bay, and other strategic points, and I have the maps to show that, yet, you’d know with your experience, that with extreme weather and crowning fires happening, they don’t know where the cool burn boundaries are some 30-40 metres below. Anyone who has seen the videos and photos of flames 100’s of metres in the air would know that, with radiant heat setting structures and trees alight some 200+ metres away; embers further away. A friend of mine burnt out in the Scotsburn fire, not as intense as the Wye River fire, has a hurricane lamp where the glass has melted down around the base of it. THAT takes some temperature to do that.
7- As you’d be well aware also, the CFA is not responsible for burn-offs in any Parks/forests.
The VFBA article commenting about the aboriginal people burning Australia is rather interesting. You might enjoy, purely as an interesting read, how they quite probably changed Australia from a green country to an arid country How Aborigines changed the climate . If they burnt Oz out every 7 years, imagine the global warming products that that would create. In reality, their burns would probably equal what is being burnt out currently in fire prevention.
But then I’m just a pompous, self indulgent plebeian messiah cretin
Cheers
That’s an interesting video of Anne’s, and I agree with her on most of her comments.
I also don’t have any Labor ‘mates’ , LNP, Greens and I vote for the people I think have the right policies. However, I don’t see any redeeming features of the LNP who are just flushing us down the gurgler quicker than anyone.
“Wildfires are NOT a natural weather occurrence created by a supposed GOD” – Lightning is; severe weather is; inaccessible country is; etc and it doesn’t take much research to show that it is classified world-wide that a Wildfire is deemed a Natural Disaster, therefore an Act of God.
They are certainly not preventable. However, the severity of a wildfire may be reduced by preventative measures as long as the fire remains low. But, as I keep saying, as soon as the weather becomes extreme and the fire crowns, nothing we can do will stop it.
I didn’t ignore the High country fires but they follow the same rules as any in severe weather events.
Any of these fires having been occurring historically, but as soon as an area becomes populated, it becomes an issue. Your link to SOSNews contradicts itself enormously and as for “Green management of Parks” that’s a laugh. Ash Wednesday, Black Saturday and now Wye River just went through all the cool burn areas (performed Last October around Wye River) as if they were not there at all.
So, put it to the Insurance Council that cyclones and floods, which can also be mitigated by good planning, be refused as well.
This matter is far from closed.
Clive Wawny is just another bureaucratic bungling Peter Pan of the CFA empire that needs to be removed before his expertise destroy further.This posting from the Volunteer Fire Fighters Association, nothing to do with any authoritarian empire of bushfire career building spin doctoring association of RFS or CFA, where the volunteers voice is heard loud and clear. And this say’s it all.
http://www.volunteerfirefighters.org.au
The lightning strike that initiated the Lorne evacuation was a routine event. Such fires once were extinguished by teams of local fire fighters. Victoria’s former Chief Forest Fire Officer Rod Incoll recently detailed how the job was done when he worked in the Otways adjacent to Lorne and the destroyed township of Wye River. Back in the day, Rod’s crews would “hold” the fire with a rigorous first attack enlisting backup from other forest districts and bulldozers. They would expect to control the fire within two or three days, and they would do so on a relatively small budget when compared with the avalanche of money that builds and expands bureaucratic empires while simultaneously, and perversely, worsening bushfire danger.
Clive have a look at the Tasmania fires several years ago. The Lorne fires are a reincarnation. http://cairnsnews.org/2013/01/06/bob-browns-utopia-devastated-by-fire/
Clive we noticed you conveniently ignored the Snowy Mountains generational holocausts as mentioned above. Now Rupert put out a contract on this news service because we exposed News Ltd links to the corrupt ALP and its vote rigging that allowed the ALP to gain government on two occasions. Not much help for us there. If you really want to understand Agenda 21 and how its policies have directed Australian environmental ‘law’ for 20 years we suggest you read the front page of http://www.cairnsnews.org where former SA politician Anne Bressington exposed Agenda 21 in Parliament. You can also go to
http://www.sosnews.org/?p=317 to learn about the history of unnecessary wildfire in Victoria.
Show it to your ALP buddies and those in the CFA hierarchy who are capable of absorbing it.
Cyclones are a natural weather occurrence created by God. Wildfires in Victoria are not in this category. They are preventable.
This matter is now closed and will be reopened when we publish the advice of the Insurance Council of Australia.
Clive, your historic rhetoric it seems is not so much a record of past events, more a catalogue of preferred beliefs expounded in support of your vested interest. Don’t you find being pompous to be a handicap, apart from being wrong, that is?
Now that you have moved into Messiah mode spruiking fire behaviour specialist, you need to take two steps backward and get off yourself.
Feel cheated with your life, capable only quoting blame worthy indicators while suggesting those who challenge your readings from the CFA gospel are all hide behind the great work of most volunteers.
You are a certified cretin who has done for bullshit what Stonehenge did for rocks, and are now so close to heaven you’re no longer required on earth.
As I reflect on my life from the wheelchair I was given after Vietnam, and the years of volunteer fire-fighting before the war, The sale of two of our Melbourne properties myself and family auctioned then donating the money to help restoration for victims of the 2009 inferno driven Victorian fires, I feel comfortable with what I have done.
I must say you have been entertaining, stop telling us how cleaver your are and go away you self indulgent plebeian.
I agree with Clive, he has personal experience.
I am no expert with regard to fire prevention or fire fighting but I do have some opinion from a common sense point of view.
I get annoyed with the trees right nest to highways as they cause death. I would prefer that Highways have no trees next to them for at least a safe distance as to allow a vehicle to stop if it leaves the road. Move the trees in the the paddock after the fences, surely this is common sense and it would save many lives?
Sorry to get off topic a bit but it really drives me nuts as they actually put barriers in front of the trees instead of shifting them.
I would consider myself to be a conservationist but sometimes the trees must be moved / relocated and they are only Gum trees anyway and they grow like weeds so its no big deal to remove those that pose a danger as they attract Kangaroos to be next to the roads instead of some distance away in bush .
As for these fires as I understand it it’s a natural phenomenon and therefore should be expected from time to time. lightening strikes etc like the current one burning in south west Victoria.
I would say this, don’t build houses where it is too dangerous to live, currently we pay the $100 fire levy and we live in a non fire prone area and the people who do pay the same amount does this seem fair? It appears to be like the GST to me.
If I built a house in a fire prone bush area with difficult access in the middle of the bush I would expect to pay extra fire levy to compensate for the extra risk.
What is the cost to the Tax payer for the fire fighting taking place not to mention the risk the CFA and others are facing as the result of some people wishing to live in what would seem to be a risky place to live or own a holiday house?
Perhaps some small areas should be cleared enough to make it safer to live there, I would not want to harm animal habitat but if it were just small areas that could be an improvement, I’m not a huge fan of burn offs I think I would rather some areas properly cleared to create serious fire breaks.
We must remember that the bush was there long before we were as were native animals so much respect must be given to those areas, people choose to build there and rent out their holiday houses whilst the animals have no choice.
I agree with your first sentence, but what part of the rest of it don’t you get? Do you think for one second we don’t do all you’ve suggested, and more? We have significant burn-offs down here, incendiaries, etc but the Otways are very different to your tropical/savannah (and I have worked in many areas of country Qld so have a reasonable understanding of it). It is rare to have crown fires up in your area; southern areas like Rocky – yes but the forest is no where as thick as in the Otways.
This Agenda 21 stuff – what is that??? It was the Vic LNP who slowed significant burn-offs some years ago because of wealthy greenie pressures from coastal holiday areas. Otherwise it has NOTHING to do with politics.
CFA members are not allowed to enter these areas under direct fire threat – simple. Most of their work is mopping-up after the primary fire has gone, even then that may not happen.
When houses are catching fire from radiant heat 100’s of metres away, cutting down a few trees is not going to do much, or the clearing of bush (that does happen, and is a legal requirement) near houses.
Many houses in the Otways were/are over 100 years old so the chances of fire is relatively remote, but devastating when it does.
Many fires that occur in the Otways, do not crown so they are controlled quickly without much damage.
Days of 42C, wind gusts up to 70kph, RH 7%, fdi 52, RL4-5, existing fire (in areas that had burns 2-4 years ago and very inaccessible, crowning fire, nothing is going to work – DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT???
Labor duopoly? (which is totally incorrect . Labor and Greens do not agree on much at all) – at least it’s not an LNP quadopoly that you support. You don’t know much about Victoria, do you?
While you are approaching the Insurance Council, then ask about refusing cyclone and flood insurance in your ‘Red’ flood areas and cyclone prone areas along the coast. Oh dear, that might include Cairns News and your home – I ‘spose Rupert will re-imburse you.
Yeah Clive I saw all the disgusting television footage of fires that could have been prevented. I saw dozens of houses built among towering eucalypts on ridge tops to accommodate wind rush being ideally situated for a preventable inferno!
Building houses under the canopy and surrounded by a eucalyptus forest is akin to insanity and those doing so must have a death wish. Cairns News will approach the Insurance Council of Australia asking it to deny insurance for dwellings situated in fire zones and especially those in the middle of a eucalypt forest. It is hoped that sensible CFA volunteers refuse to enter these cataclysms if home owners refuse to remove trees surrounding houses. It is very simple-get a bloody chainsaw and cut down the offending trees. Thin it out as any experienced forester will do.
Fortunately our atmospheric conditions in northern Queensland generally don’t foster crown fires in our millions of acres of savannah and wet/ dry sclerophyll forests. The Forestry Department in Queensland has not yet been infected by the Agenda 21-driven policies of the party duopoly(like Victoria) and it conducts annual burn offs in conjunction with the volunteer rural firies in cooler months. They burn many thousands of hectares west of Cairns and further afield. Cape York Peninsula is a great example of successful wild-fire prevention.
There fire breaks are constructed on the perimeter with graded containment lines sometimes three blades or more wide or local roads are used to great effect. There are few men on the ground. Fire bombs are dropped from planes or helicopters and vast areas of Aboriginal freehold, national park and (if requested) pastoral properties are burnt successfully without incident. Most of these areas are inaccessible. We do not get wild fires as a result. If the defenders of the loony ALP government care to cast their eyes up the hill at two generations of mismanagement of the Snowy Mountain region you will find it totally denuded of its majestic snow gums and mountain ash. The Vic and NSW state governments prohibited firebreaks and removed the grazing cattle. The entire Alpine region has had the guts burnt out of it, thanks to the Agenda 21 – driven party duopoly and their bedmates the Greens. No doubt the Lorne region will also be the same thanks to non-existent or totally inefficient fire prevention policies of the ruling junta.
What bullshit George.
I am certainly not a propagandist but correcting massive errors such as yours. For a start, it is not the CFA who determine burn-offs in the Otways but the DELWP as you should know. Do you know who they are???
So your uncontrolled fires of the 50’s -60’s prevented fires? Well then, you’d know all about the 12,000 acres burnt in the Otways 28th Jan 1951 then. It is not hard to google all the fires in the Otways between 1950 and 1960’s and it shows your prevention wasn’t much good. It was also a rather wet period, yet fires still occurred.
My limitations? Hmmm, I actively support fuel reductions, which, by the way, occur often and carefully planned. I CERTAINLY do not promote infernos in any shape or form.
If you’ve lived there for 70 years then you know surprisingly little about the functions of a very successful organisation, which does have large bureacratic content, most of which is aimed at fire-fighter’s safety.
What have you contributed in your 70 years to your local area? Or, have you relied on volunteers to do your dirty work for you and putting themselves in the firing line?
If you know so much, then you’d know that extreme conditions and a crowning fire is unstoppable.
You’d also know, that this empire of pamphlet professors, is using 5 large aircraft constantly dropping water/retardant, numerous helicopters; 500 CFA resources (mostly trucks); DELWP I’m not sure of their numbers; a huge number of CFA volunteers from around the State attending, and you dare criticise them.
ps I’ve been a CFA volunteer since 1967 up to Captain, and now in the Incident Control Centre. What have you done???
Hi Philip, don’t know why he’d say that because I have the official burn-off maps all around that area and significant burns have been achieved right up to recently. They are ‘cool’ burns for the under-story litter obviously, which simply doesn’t do a thing when a crown fire happens, usually on extreme days, and there is always litter capable of burning when the RH is 8% or less.
The editor of this rag wouldn’t know what a RH of <50% would be like, let alone 45C fed by gusting winds 50-90 kph. I accept they'd know much higher winds we would have here in cyclone conditions.
Your comments reflect a very active propagandist and seems caught up in his craft I find as a resident of the subject area for near 70 years, the ground fuel loads we controlled 1950’s – 60’s before the CFA became an empire of pamphlet professors, contained fires to manageable unlike the present day capitulation of people like yourself who support bushfire’s becoming inferno’s from a CFA populated by Incompetence kowtowing to engineered environmental science agenda.
Your astonishing limitations reflect you as a well read gullible pamphlet professor of little value
For people who claim fire prevention is not allowed, this may clear it up somewhat –
Victoria 10/50 rule (opens as Docx)
Obviously there are conditions in certain instances, but generally pretty good and would be very effective except for crowning bushfires, which this seems to be incomprehensible to the editor.
Maybe they should talk to their local Cairns MLA who spent many years as a CFA volunteer near the edge of the Otways, and who was a professional Ambo there before moving to Cairns.
Oh, hang on, he’s Labor so that’s probably not allowed
What a joke. Why did this happen then if you are so wonderful up there Rocky Fires – Oct 2015
“The CFA should build firebreaks around these areas and back burn BEFORE the fire season starts. If we can do it why can’t the Victoria Government?”” —
You obviously don’t read posted comments and/or choose to ignore them. Fuel reduction burns ARE performed regularly around these towns and the fire started by lightning in an area burnt in 2013 in VERY inaccessible forest. As I have stated many a time, once a fire crowns nothing will slow it down. Look at the videos and photos and let the experts know how to stop it – they’ll be very interested.
I still find it highly insulting to our volunteers who have defended many of these homes of people, many of whom do not assist the brigades in any way, either as volunteering and/or financially.
You have an excellent fire service up there and, as a CFA volunteer, there is no way I would denigrate your volunteers like you have. The edit by a supposed Fire Officer Lee is a joke and I am glad you have him. It is not hard to see how many fires are occurring in Qld at any time – the one’s you claim never happen because you are so wonderful!!!
What crap.It has nothing to do with Greenies or Labor, and in fact the Liberals were the ones to water-down the CFA Act years ago. They are the puppets to many of the holiday home owners who own mansions.
If you’re a ‘First Officer, Rural Fires’ then I am glad you stay up there. You have no idea of the CFA Act or it’s policies. If they weren’t as strong as they are then people may have lost their lives. The CFA and DELWP have very strong fire prevention policies (enacted by an ACT of Parliament) rigorously enforced and performed.
The crown fires we have down here are unique in intensity to anywhere on the Planet which puts us ahead of California.
“This fire should not have occured” – It’s a bit hard to stop lightning in VERY inaccessible country and where numerous 24.5 tonnes of water dropped on it is not even penetrating the tree canopy. It also started in areas where fuel reduction burns had been performed in 2013 and the floor litter was light.
“and certainly would not have occurred in Queensland” – you should look at the fires near Rockhampton Oct 2015 – oh dear, you must not have been there and wiggled your finger – Fires near Rocky
Brad, well said. There are so many ignorant comments on this incredibly mis-informed article. Obviously not many people know that a crowning bushfire just takes a small ground firebreak without blinking. Someone with half a brain would see that the photos and videos of the fire is, by far, bigger than any human prevention measures implemented could achieve.
Luckily, due to the organisation of the CFA and our Victoria Police saw that no one was hurt.
The difference between the Country Fire AUTHORITY as against Country Fire SERVICE in SA is that the CFA is the combating authority and has significant legal enforcement policies.
People also don’t seem to understand the aircraft coming from Sydney has massive ground support requirements and it is leased by NSW who assisted us with our fire.
I have access to the current CFA/DELWP maps that show historical burn-offs. Around Wye River and Lorne (and many other areas) preventive burns have been performed regularly by DELWP, up until 2015, but even these have no effect against a crown-fire.
Do you seriously think that a crowning bushfire, of the intensity it was, would be stopped by a ground fire-break?
It has nothing to do with politics, except that they allow people to build in these areas. Anyone can do fire prevention measures that over-ride any Council or other restrictions as defined by the CFA Act.
I have been saying this for years! So many homes lost and lives lost or threatened, and yet the stupid Victorian Government and councils do not allow anyone to protect their properties with fire breaks etc. And the same happens in the Blue Mountains! When will these greenie lefties be thrown out of any position of power.
Do you think that what you have just said would have saved the houses in that fire? If you believe that that just shows how ignorant you are of our fire season. Have you seen the photos/video of that fire? Obviously not.
The radiant heat alone was triggering houses to catch from hundreds of metres away – fat lot of good your suggestions would have made. I think you should retire from this blog just from sheer ignorance, after a massive apology of course.
Philip, not right. I have the CFA/DEWLP (aka DEPI and afew other acronyms) maps that clearly show burns in 2013, 2011 and earlier around Wye River and Lorne specifically (and many other areas) and the fire just went through the lot of them. Days like that, nothing will stop them. Burning off is still fully carried out here.
As far as ‘Greens’, Labor party etc causing this that’s bullshit. Napthine’s govt did NOTHING either so blaming govts and groups just shows the ignorance of the people claiming that. John Cain, just after Ash Wednesday quashed the greenies and strengthened the CFA Act to allow anyone to remove fire hazards. Maybe the govt should just ban any building in an incredibly fire prone area such as many of the Otways habitable areas.
In Victoria they do not evacuate. They recommend people leave and strongly advise they do so. If they choose to stay they are not forced and certainly not at gun point. The council have no say on what you can or can’t clear. The people that live in these areas can and do prepare their own properties as they see fit. Not as the government sees fit.
Cut down the trees cluttering the house, mow the grass, get the leaves out of the gutters and get a reliable, household water supply. Are you as silly as the Greens?
Thank you John. Please feel free to send us any stories you have about these fires. We can publish anonymously.
Editor
The truth emerges. For one Greens’ hopeless comments, there are another 20 telling the truth. The fact remains that city people should not live in the bush underneath highly combustible eucalypt trees. Nor should they expect volunteer firefighters to risk their lives because of a complete lack of fire prevention policies from an Agenda 21 (30) – driven state government and an entirely corrupt bureaucracy. This fire should not have occurred, and certainly would not have occurred in Queensland, in spite of the equally horrific drought conditions we have experienced. Homeowners who suffered should consider living back in the city. Hopefully insurance companies will refuse to insure homes built under these unsafe conditions found in Victoria.
Editor – Robert J Lee, First Officer, Rural Fires
Yes we know the CFA is driven by the stupidity of Labor and the Greens. We in Queensland have been dealing with bush fires for as long a man has inhabited the bush. To build under a eucalypt canopy is gross stupidity, and the local council is even more stupid for allowing it. In Queensland volunteer firefighters can refuse to fight a fire if similar situations to these fires exist. The CFA should, as we do in Queensland, visit homeowners in fire prone areas advising them to build firebreaks and remove all fire hazards(including gutters full of highly combustible eucalypt leaves) before the fire season starts. We also advise them to provide water and to have their own high pressure hoses available when needed. Do house holders expect volunteers to endanger their lives and those of others because of homeowner idiocy?
The CFA should build firebreaks around these areas and back burn BEFORE the fire season starts. If we can do it why can’t the Victoria Government?
Listening to the Chief Fire Control Officer on ABC television was very enlightening. He explained that the bush in that area had not been burnt since 1930 because it was always too damp to burn. The rainfall dis not allow that and it was the lack of rainfall this year that allowed this catastrophe to occur. So those detractors need to put that in their pipe and smoke it eh!!! Maybe its best that Queenslanders comment of things that they know about
Im sick of the greenies put them on the front line and see if they still say no to fuel reduction hasn’t anybody learned from black saurday we lost a whole bloody town in Marysville.Countless lives years ago cfa and evertbody burned of so we didn’t get these massive fires, before the white man Aborigines always burnt
What a load of bullshit. For a start the Labor party hasn’t “forbidden any hazard reduction burning in cooler months, removal of eucalypts trees near houses or any sensible fire prevention methods”. I live in a fire prone area and I know that’s a lie. And if land is to be graded and bulldozed, it would need to do hundreds of thousands of kms each year. Did you not notice that the fire skipped over roads? How wide would the clearing need to be? Half a km? How could that be done on hills, etc? Go f**k yourselves Cairnsnews – how dare you try to take advantage of this catastrophe for your own political gain? It’s not Greenies, you idiots. It’s where people live – they live in the bush as well as the city – and always have. Maybe we should just all live in high rise like the hellish Surfers? I think not. Ditto with cyclones/floods – why isn’t your government forcing everyone to move where its completely safe? Use your brains…..
Be interesting if toss that lost there homes recently ashe rise that have been through a similar situation in the past few years formed a class action lawsuit against the government’s that introduced and maintain these ridiculous laws. I spent ten years as a fire fighter in northern nsw and hazard reduction burns were carried out every year. We never had a problem like this until the government stopped us.
What makes it even more disgusting is there is a fleet of RAAF Hercules maintained that could be converted to FireBombers on a larger scale that do nothing.Only when people lose lives will they Quack.City slickers in Concrete jungles know nothing about fire or Bush and Politicians line there own pockets.Convert half a Dozen Hercules to work Nationally in convoy for first attack of substantial size.We do have radios and Communication.If you think this is not Possible how did they put Agent Orange on Vietnam ?
Most of these homes have been there for years. This article is a pathetic beat up. Some one one in Cairns knows about the conditions in Victoris, give us all a break. Southern Australia has had the lowest rainfall on record and high temperatures much earlier than normal. The country is tinder dry to begin with, reduction burns were very limited this year due to that fact.
Facts folks, stick to them please.
Really Ernie? That’s a big call !! So many different situations out there! Some neglect of their situation and their lifestyle but by the sounds of this the governments management/ policies of area is to blame. I proudly live in a rural bush fire prone area and am a RFS volunteer as is my husband. I take offence to your comment as you’ve obviously never known the RFS family and how they come together to help mates. Nobody intentionally moves to an area to burn down their belongings. Why don’t you use your comments to call for the government to let people that have lived through these disasters and understand the management of such fire to run the show!!! I know I’ve learnt a lot from them. We can give them a title if necessary?
Made this same comment to a family friend on FB. not impressed, I’m heartless. If you want to be “one with nature’ then you should at least be a member of the local CFA and be on call. The main issue is one of ignorance. Most people have not 1 zot of a clue on fire chemistry.
You are all way way off if you think that the government doesn’t do fuel reduction burns. And there are also plenty of provision for people to remove trees within 10m of a house and clear everything but trees within 50m. You can very easily get permits to remove trees within 50m of a house in a bushfire area. The people who own the properties are responsible for preparing them not the government.
And why do you vote for them?
It’s not rocket science,if you build a house under the canopy of a forest,then you are more than likely to experience a disaster. Whether that’s the fault of greenies or councils is debatable,but changes have to be made.
I think first up before labeling specific groups as Stupid you should learn what service is responsible for what areas. The Victorian Country Fire Service you name, which I assume is meant to be Country Fire Authority of Victoria is responsible for asset protection of Private Property. The department responsible for public lands (state and national parks in Victoria) is the department that keeps changing its name each time they are sued in class actions (formerly NRE, DNRE, Parks Victoria, and what ever they call themselves today). CFA have no control of the management of public lands. In saying that however, you would be surprised how many of those former home owners wouldnt want anything any other way, many like the idea of having trees rubbing up against their homes and ‘untouched’ nature at their doorsteps, so for those I have no sympathy for their material losses, I do however sympathize with the neighbors of those people who do take the time to take the necessary steps and spend a lot of money to protect their properties but often in vain as it takes the actions of a whole community to help protect a community in the case of wildfire.
What an amazing article that cannot even get the name of the CFA correct. Clearly an extreme right wing publication paid for by non tax paying mega rich who blame Labor for everything. Yes I have serious concerns about blasted damn Greens but they are NOT in coalition with labour and the reference to Bolsheviks is so outdated well, I ask this paper, given the extreme hatred and animosity by Menzies and every PM up to at least early Fraser… against the communist Chinese, how do YOU feel about the stinking FTA with commie China??? I served my nation in uniform but I bet YOU hid under your bed like so many of your cowardly kind do
Don’t build in the bush is really one of the options. I’m interested in how you get more water to fight fires when you have a drought and I wonder did you notice they were dumping seawater on the fire cause it was next to the ocean. We have always had bushfires but we have a lot more people living in the bush. It is the weather who is the enemy not the Greens, Government or Environmentalists. You could always have a razed earth policy for some but it will not stop fires. It will not matter how big the fire break is, even with bulldozers etc if the weather is like it was on Christmas Day and it is hard to get a bulldozer into the mountains. We are in the country and we do reduction burns all year while it is safe to do so. People built there houses in the trees because they like the trees, do you think they will build if you raze it all to the ground.
Unbelievable! Go to Sydney to refuel and restock????? Why don’t they have their own service centre for the fire bombers in Victoria????? That would be more sensible.
116 homes!!!!!! That is ridiculous! With all the years of experiencing these horrifying fires there should be much less carnage of peoples homes today. Shouldn’t the Victorian government be spending more on providing the services to prevent this carnage, and to be able to fight the fires more professionally. We can send people over to California to fight the fires there yet not have the services functioning well here. Is the Victorian government in the pockets of the many insurance companies who service the people in their state? My heart goes out to those who have been affected by these fires.
Further to my last. DSE (NOT the CFA) are responsible for controlled burning and exceeded their targets for this year. Due to its landscape, the Surf Coast Shire is recognised by fire agencies as being one of the most
fire prone areas in the State of Victoria. If whoever wrote this shite (I noticed you don’t publish your name, very professional.) did a bit of research you’d be able to find all the information about fire prevention and planning in the Otways http://www.surfcoast.vic.gov.au/files/d5d0a88e-9f66-4f45-97e9-9f8301134cbe/3_1_SCS_Municipal_Fire_Management_Plan.pdf
Yeah, wait till Melbourne city burns, then they’ll do something about their stupid policies. I’m all for conservation, but not at the cost of lives and homes. Use some common sense you fools in government.
When its dry enough to burn off CFA / Shire bring in restrictions stopping you from cleaning up your or any fire hazard ,the longer the fire season the more fuel for the spread of fire.I will challenge any one to a debate.
I am hear for help .. I can offer help./
Ernie McKenna how do you think places like Sydney, Melbourne, Ballarat, etc were made? Someone cleared a bit of land in the middle of nowhere, then got a couple of neighbours who did the same until it eventually became a community, then a town and eventually a city; I’ve seen it happen many times in my lifetime but that was before the event of Greenies.
Look into, Agenda 21
There will you find the answers.
Sorry. Not my desire. But how it is.
Whether it appliesin in that specific area. I have not studied.
It flew back to Sydney because it was leased by the New South Wales fire service and all the loading gear is up there. It flew down to help out with the Victorian fires.
Um, those homes have been there a lot longer than the local government. BTW the fire started in an inaccessible area, not sure how you are meant to burn off an area that you can’t get to? If you think we should just bulldoze tracks all over the Otways to create fire breaks then maybe Cairns is where you should stay. The men and women of the CFA do a fantastic job and should be commended for their selfless work. Not insulted by some cane toad rag.
I thinkwe shojld be taking these people to court for loss and damage due to loss.
A few points (from a firie and long-ago rural firie)…
Hazard reductions aren’t as effective as they are often made out to be by the general media. They will certainly improve results in high-very high conditions, but in catastrophic conditions with very high winds and temperatures, even 5-yearly HRs will not stop a fire or even make it controllable.
Having a ‘bulldozed fire break’ as suggested by the author is almost useless in conditions like this. Unless it’s 50 metres wide. And who wants to live in a ‘bushland setting’ with a 50 metres of dirt around you?
The ‘Greens’ party supports hazard reduction burning, when it is supported by scientific evidence. Which is most of the time. That’s not to say there aren’t other green groups who oppose it though.
Labor, Liberal and greens essentially have the same policies when it comes to HR burning.
Most houses burn down (in bushfires) from ember attack and radiant heat from adjoining structures, not from direct flame contact from the bushfire (of course there are exceptions where houses are right against bushland). The only thing that can really prevent this is improved home design/construction combined with good preparation.
Excuse me. I have been to Wye River and doing fuel reduction burn offs would not have helped. DELWP did as much as possible. It was caused by lightening strike.
I was on the fire ground today. You people piss me off. Perhaps you should temove your trees before the next cyclone kills someone. Doh
And this is just the beginning as the Otways are tinder dry and laiden with thousands of tons of hazardous material, the once logging tracks and fire trails have become over grown and no longer exist.. The Department of name changes now the DELWP have stated twice this year that the Coastal towns were safe from fire as they had run every possible simulation possible.. This was the same government department that was responsible on AFL Grand Final Weekend Fires..
In Victoria the DELWP receives Triple time and so do the council workers coordinating the relief centers.. DELWP a week earlier had refused the assistance of the CFA Volunteers for the Lorne Wye River fire and booked the Forrest Recreation Reserve for a 4 week period .. A week later CFA Volenteers had to defend Coastal Townships and risk their lives.!! So which service has an interest to extinguish a bush fire?? Those being paid triple time or those Volunteering their time???? Business Community of Apollo Bay urgently needs support.. The DELWP was responsible for the Asbestos Scare on the Apollo Bay Foreshore last Xmas, Dredging of sand from the Apollo Bay Harbour to the main Beach,now we are faced with a Bush Fire Crisis.. Your government has done its best to cripple this town, as three of it four Industry are all but extinct and the fourth one of tourism is taking a heavy hit yet again..!! The Colac Otway Shire have done nothing to assist the coastal business community as there focus is Colac and not the coastal towns of Apollo Bay Skenes Creek Wye River Seperation Creeks.. The Premier must acknowledge the petition for these towns to sucede from the Colac Otway Shire to reestablish the former Otway Shire or bring into alignment with the Surf Coast Shire..
This article is so off track it is clear the author failed in basic research and gathering of facts. Sad that people read and believe garbage like this. Worse that people feel it is appropriate to publish something so soon post devastation. Find a heart and publish actual facts not what you think people should believe.
Local councils stopped people collecting fallen trees and branches for firewood so the fuel build up. The same local councils we said no to in the 1998 referendum.
You misinformed idiot Ernie… Would love to catch up with you for a chat..
How disrespectful to the individual loss of these people!
They chose to live in an area of Australia that was very ‘green’ with plenty of trees and generally a beautiful view of the ocean.
Personally, I feel sympathy for their loss of property but that is replaceable and I hope they can get over this grief.
If you cannot build a house without ‘carving’ out fire breaks and designing your property to withstand Australian bush fire conditions – move to an urban environment. The trees are removed there and if you have plenty of money, you can get property with an ocean view.
The Greens are the real arsonists !
How does this get to be the fault of “greenies”? Did they hold a gun to people’s heads and force them to build there? What is the land tenure? If it’s private the owner can build there *if they are stupid enough*. Anyone who builds in those locations without fire breaks are not greenies.
What a load of crap we had to cut down all the trees around our house in Aireys Inlet and all bushes cleared. There are burn offs in the Otways every year stop spouting rubbish!!
You have got what you voted for. The Greenies are Ecotards and quite bonkers. see theeuroprobe.org and type Wildlands, Agenda 21 and CO2 into the search box
Hideously stupid!
The Greens have failed this nation on so many levels that it beggars belief.
Written by a true Liberal…
trees are more important than people to the damn Greens
As a retired RFS volunteer from west of Sydney the minute I saw the news about fires down there I thought “here we go again, I bet the trees are overhanging the wooden buildings” so I looked it up on google earth and sure enough, the same old story. Even the photos of the burnt out buildings show the obvious reasons they burnt down. A house will burn because it can, it’s not rocket science, it is quite simple to build a fire proof house by using materials that don’t burn but they still use timber, it’s crazy. The other reason of course is all the underscrub and trees overhanging the buildings which the councils do not allow you to clear. What else do they expect. Then of course the other aspect of forced evacuation. If you happen to be “fire wise” and experienced and not scared of a bush fire because you have been in one before and have a big concrete water tank with a fire pump and hoses and quite capable of looking after yourself the police will still drag you kicking and screaming away from your property. I have personally seen this done in NSW at gunpoint. The police having been sent up from the city have no training or knowledge of bushfires and really think we are all going to die consumed by this raging inferno if they don’t “rescue” us. I have seen the riot squad sent to fire areas to “assist with evacuation”. They were kept hidden behind the village hall at the time and most people were not aware of them being there or why.
ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT, and extremly insulting journalism to the 1,000’s of people involved in this fire. You have NO IDEA. I am very angry over your article and comments posted show a high degree of ignorance and insensitivity.
This has nothing to do with ‘Greenies’ or political parties. That was sorted out after Ash Wednesday 1983.
You have Tropical Rainforests in Cairns and we have very unique dry schlerophyll Eucalypt forests with an extreme climate to boot. You do not know what you are commenting on.
I have the controlled burns maps of the area and there were significant burns performed around Wye River and Lorne only 3 years ago. The litter on the forest floor would still be relatively light. There were many other older burns performed ie 4, 5, 6 years ago surrounding these towns. When a fire is crowning, as it was with high winds; high temp & low humidity, it doesn’t matter what burns you did previously. Also, how much do you burn? The Otways are huge.
This was a dry lightning strike ignition. In totally inaccessible bush due to vertical escarpments etc. Aerial attack was ineffective, so they conducted burnout operations around it for 3-4 days.
Weather conditions on Christmas Day saw the fire “spot” over its control lines in about six locations. These spot fires developed into the fires that swept into the townships despite valiant efforts by firefighters from all agencies, attacking from land and air.
It should be noted that multiple drops from the Large Air Tankers were ineffective against this fire. 24,500 litre (nearly 25 tonne) water and retardant drops (each) from these aircraft were not even breaching the forest canopy and virtually none made it to the forest floor.
I am speaking as someone who has had 48 Years of involvement with CFA and fire prevention. Victoria and Tassie have VERY unique and dangerous fire conditions and people who choose to build in these areas have to expect a high possibility of this happening.
Also, I am not in anyway defending political and /or green philosophies.
I suggest you either keep your ignorant comments to yourself (be hard for media) or try to understand the vagaries of fire-fighting down here. Victoria is leading the Planet with regard to fire-fighting, but nothing can stop a fire of this intensity.
It would be like me commenting on your Cyclones and that you should learn by now.
That was 1 Very Large tanker that had a very profound effect on the fire near Ballarat. It is a DC10 and requires extensive backup equipment and is based mainly for NSW fire season. It was one of a fleet of large tankers that performed a fantastic job.
ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT, and extremly insulting journalism to the 1,000’s of people involved. You have NO IDEA. I am very angry over your article and comments posted show a high degree of ignorance and insensitivity.
This has nothing to do with ‘Greenies’ or political parties. That was sorted out after Ash Wednesday 1983.
You have Tropical Rainforests in Cairns and we have very unique dry schlerophyll Eucalypt forests with an extreme climate to boot. You do not know what you are commenting on.
I have the controlled burns maps of the area and there were significant burns performed around Wye River and Lorne only 3 years ago. The litter on the forest floor would still be relatively light. There were many other older burns performed ie 4, 5, 6 years ago surrounding these towns. When a fire is crowning, as it was with high winds; high temp & low humidity, it doesn’t matter what burns you did previously. Also, how much do you burn? The Otways are huge.
This was a dry lightning strike ignition. In totally inaccessible bush due to vertical escarpments etc. Aerial attack was ineffective, so they conducted burnout operations around it for 3-4 days.
Weather conditions on Christmas Day saw the fire “spot” over its control lines in about six locations. These spot fires developed into the fires that swept into the townships despite valiant efforts by firefighters from all agencies, attacking from land and air.
It should be noted that multiple drops from the Large Air Tankers were ineffective against this fire. 24,500 litre (nearly 25 tonne) water and retardant drops (each) from these aircraft were not even breaching the forest canopy and virtually none made it to the forest floor.
I am speaking as someone who has had 48 Years of involvement with CFA and fire prevention. Victoria and Tassie have VERY unique and dangerous fire conditions and people who choose to build in these areas have to expect a high possibility of this happening.
Also, I am not in anyway defending political and /or green philosophies.
I suggest you either keep your ignorant comments to yourself (be hard for media) or try to understand the vagaries of fire-fighting down here. Victoria is leading the Planet with regard to fire-fighting, but nothing can stop a fire of this intensity
This is a disgusting article written without any form of credibility. As a resident of the affected town and a volunteer firefighter of the Country Fire Authority (CFA), not the “Victoria country fire service” I can confidently say you have gotten none of this right. Our state government in association with the CFA organise yearly planned burns to reduce bush fire risk around our towns.
“Victoria Country Fire Service” – it is the Country Fire Authority or CFA in Victoria. The Country Fire Service – CFS – is the South Australian equivalent.
“forbid any hazard reduction burning in cooler months” – this is incorrect. The Department of Environment and Primary Industries – DEPI – conduct regular pre- and post-season burn offs around Victoria every year.
“forbid any hazard reduction burning in cooler months, removal of eucalypts trees near houses or any sensible fire prevention methods” – farmers conduct regular fire prevention burns when necessary. They also construct fire breaks in their paddocks. Land owners of properties commonly referred to as ‘rural dwellings’ – where they would be on property 1 to 4 acres in size are regularly encouraged to clean up and maintain their properties in preparedness for the upcoming fire season with local councils allowing the free dumping of green waste at refuse centres throughout Victoria.
“The government doesn’t use graders or bulldozers in their ‘pristine’ reserves in case a blade of grass or some ants are disturbed” – Bulldozers are a part of the DEPI front line attack when it comes to fire fighting. Machinery such as Graders & Bulldozers are also readily available from local councils and earthmoving contractors during the fire season, as are additional water carrying trucks.
“Never mind the terrible consequences for those hapless home owners who have lost all of their possessions by not preparing their own fire breaks or providing sufficient water resources to fight bush fires” – Your previous paragraph stated “The stupidity of the Victoria Country Fire Service and the even more unintelligent Green Labor Government has seen 116 homes destroyed by fire because the Bolsheviks of the state Labor party forbid any hazard reduction burning in cooler months, removal of eucalypts trees near houses or any sensible fire prevention methods.” You have contradicted yourself – who exactly is at fault? The “Bolsheviks of the state Labor party” because they “forbid any hazard reduction burning in cooler months, removal of eucalypts trees near houses or any sensible fire prevention methods” or the “hapless home owners” for “not preparing their own fire breaks or providing sufficient water resources to fight bush fires”?
Whoever wrote this article seriously needs to do quite a substantial amount of research before attempting to submit more dribble. The Editor should also hang their head in shame for allowing it to be posted.
Not sure you should be blaming the CFA except at the command levels, which is necessarily tainted by the politics above. The volunteers and real firefighters I know (out in the bush) understand the value of controlled burns. I recall training videos from my time as a volunteer nearly 40 years ago.
For fs sake the last thing anybody needs to see or hear is your political inspired bs.Have a real think about 116 house holds now without homes.Your same logic dictates you should move from nth qld every year cyclone yup idiot qlder
Why don’t the people who lost their homes sue the stupid Green Labour Government!
Spot on!
Greenies have a lot to answer for bet they don’t leave their comfy homes to help fight these fires. On the other hand the average Aussie should be standing up to the Greenies and writing to their local member to have fire reduction burn offs.
I think tree hugging AND huggers should be banned in the fire season. Human life and the homes they work so hard to keep for their families , should be a priority. The little beasties of this earth will always be with us, and trees will regrow, but a life lost Is a life lost forever. No home will ever totally replace a new one, they will be constant reminders of tragedy and the ‘old place’ will always be where they’d rather be. (If I lived in a bushfire prone area, I would be inclined to burn off, cut down, throw out,or bury anything that was a threat to my Family or home) regardless of who approved. We are bombarded with ads on TV about what should be done to prevent, or at least, minimise danger and damage should the worst happen. Why then should property owners have their hands tied? Now, this is just my opinion, if you think I am talking rubbish, please ignore!
the stupidity is also those you build in these areas and expect other people to risk their lives to protect these properties!
As soon as the news came out that the main fire bomber, based in Melbourne, had to return to Sydney to refuel and reload with fire retardant, (I kid you not), I said to my Mrs that Christmas day was going to be catastrophic based on the forecast, 3 days out..
I don’t even live in the area, I’m on the other side of the State, but the Policies, Procedures and Decisions made by all “Authorities”, and there are 3 involved, are going to kill Victorians.
Absolutely spot on!